Return Of Queens Tanks And Struggles To Pull Itself From The Ashes

The founder of Return Of Queens, Ann, is closing the site and trying to found a new one called Kings And Queens Return. Ann claims that ROQ was a failure but that she wants to keep on trying to inspire people. As I understand it, the only major change is that it will be now for both men and women, even though they had previously allowed men to interact on ROQ. She left an explanation here. Based on what little I read from ROQ, I actually think they have good intentions and good wisdom, so in the spirit of charity, I decided to leave my comment.

Hi, I’m Blair. I write for Return of Kings weekly. I’m fairly new there. First of all, let me say that when I came across Return of Queens, I really liked it, warts and all. I thought it had a good intention. Let me tell you likely why it went wrong.

First, the other ROK writers laughed it down as women attention whoring, and some guessed that you are a man trying to make a profit by pretending to be a woman. Myself, I see it irrelevant if either are true. But frankly, your first mistake is that you took our name. I realize that that was a marketing strategy, but it looks like you are trying to piggyback off of our success. Did you even contact Roosh to see if it was okay to make the implicit connection to his site? Had you gotten his blessing or at least a “well, maybe it will be worth something, but we’ll see”, then you could have had more success.

Second, every social movement attracts an undesirable group of radicals, and those tend to be the loudest. I myself am horrified by the way some commenters on ROK talk to women commentators who are not there to spew hatred. One time, there was a 17 year old girl who legitimately seemed like she wanted answers and was unhappy with the popular narrative society had given her, and this one commenter called her all sorts of vulgar things and blamed the teenager for society’s collapse.

Even though you claimed ROQ was not red pill, it more or less was. The red pill movement is for social malcontents, so of course there is going to be radicals and haters from within. You should expect that if you’re going to write a fringe site.

Third, women want to be led by men. They want women to eat cookie dough and cry with them, but they don’t really want their advice. Or if they do want their advice, then it is really men who affect major change in them. It is men who give women a reason to drop out of grad school to become a mother, not other women.

In conclusion, I would recommend as a first step either changing the name of the site or contacting Roosh and asking for an alliance of sorts. When he started doing more Gamergate reporting, he went to their Reddit or something and explained it to them. His tone was very humble, and he gained a lot of respect from people who had previously hated him.

This was a one-off thing I wrote in less than 10 minutes. It does not represent the views of ROK, and it is not a hard conviction of mine. But it appears true enough to me that I felt comfortable leaving it in the comments section. Within a good 24 hours, they responded. Apparently it’s done little to change their views on anything, but I appreciate their attention to it anyway. It appears that Ann sincerely wants to help people. The main part that stuck out to me was this:

I was going to contact Roosh early on, but then I received some private communications that led me to believe that this would not be a good idea. I was told that #1 he hated whoever was running the site and if it is a woman he was going to “crush” her, and #2 that I should not attempt to contact him as my personal details would more than likely be exploited.

I actually haven’t interacted with Roosh much since I began writing in September. The way Ann characterizes him seems very unlikely to me, but I could be wrong since I hardly know him. I do know that many people (perhaps such as those who fed her the information) try to slander his character as a cruel person, and I know that on the internet it is often better to be safe in regard to rumors than to risk it. However, all my interactions with him have shown him to be a very warm and goal-oriented person. I do not understand what it would accomplish to crush ROQ.

ROK has many female readers no matter how often commenters tell them off, so it appears that there is a real desire for red pill wisdom for women. I think part of the reason women like reading ROK is because the sexes are innately tied, and one cannot write about one sex without referring to the other. Therefore when we criticize women, the female readers often see it as a challenge to improve.

But it is true that the modern woman needs solid guidance as much as the modern man. ROK is not about to start offering slow cooker recipes. We are not going to give women in-detail advice about what blouse is appropriate for what occasion. We are not going to teach them how to make the perfect thank-you gesture. On very rare occasions, we have published some direct advice to women before, but it was very basic and in-part written for men to agree with.

What then is the final solution for Ann and her mission? If she cannot receive the blessing to use a similar name, then she should change it to something different entirely. Ann wrote,

The name of this website is far enough removed from the whole “return of” thing, to satisfy my need to distance myself from RoK.

But the website is called! [emphasis mine] And she’s still using the king/royalty motif. I understand that imagery of the “queen ruling with her king” playing off of the princess fantasies girls have, but there are other ways to express the same basic principle.

Personally, I do not care if she uses a similar name, but I can see how many would be offended. If she truly wants to reach people, the humble thing would be a complete rebranding, even if she’s already spent money on the new domain name. So in the interest of charity again, here are three of my own suggestions:

  • Red Pill Wisdom For Real Women [straight to the point while shaming the androgynous; also has alliteration and rhyme]
  • Finishing Charms For Feminine Ladies: Real Empowerment, Real Respect [a play on finishing school/ charm school, while also criticizing the “be a whore and career woman to take control of your life” message]
  • Wisdom Our Yiayias Knew [a play on the Athenos commercials, which, having known several Greek people, is only a little exaggerated; also plays up the “universal common sense that’s been forgotten” message.]

Aren’t those delightful?

Finally, K&Q referred to me as a member and invited me to contribute. I only signed up for the membership so I could make that one comment. Perhaps in the distant future I may submit work, and I appreciate the open invitation, but for the time being I think it is best to not become involved beyond the writing of this post here.


4 thoughts on “Return Of Queens Tanks And Struggles To Pull Itself From The Ashes

    • My thoughts exactly. There is a difference between putting feminine women on a pedestal vs encouraging women to embrace their femininity and reject the worldview of feminism.

      As much as I appreciate the shock jock approach of Forney, men in particular should at least show polite manners toward women who are respectful on ROK comment boards just like they would a woman who was respectful toward them in real life interactions.


  1. Agreed, yet another potential ally has now largely been thrown away. How stupid are you fools? The better quality women are trying to figure this out damn dystopia too. Think before you yap off!!!


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